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Group,
Thank you for the valuable information. |
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We added the pressure wash on the bow, they are a big time saver, not to mention the reduction in cursing.
My wife early on made hot and cold water shower on the stern cockpit a design requirement. One of the "non-debate" items! (I've long since lost interest in cold showers.) I usually have to edit my posts three or four times to catch the spelling errors. The only excuse I have is that I'm a bad speller. Hugh |
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Hey I forgot to mention in my bad spelling message below..it was 1am in the morning! that every boat needs a salt water wash! to wash the chain and all the salt build up ...then you use the fresh water wash to simply "rinse " the boat...My bow hose outlet is salt water wash.....I have a short hose for chain washing.....back in the cockpit I have an automatic retracting hose which will reach the whole boat and is connected to both fresh and salt water ...so I just throw a valve in the cocpit ...and when I am finished it will all just ZIP away...no coiling hoses! or putting in lockers....wonderfull...once you have used a Auot-retracting hose you will wonder why you never did before....sort of like wasting your life tying shoe laces? but I do sometimes!
I also have a hot/cold shower on the marina deck...a bit of a luxury but nice and I saved a guys life with one of these once...found him drifting after 3 days in the water unable to get back into his swamped canoe...nearly dead and Hypothermic...so showered him on the aft deck for awhile with warm water before we could lift him further to stop his blood running to his extremities....I don't have a shampoo rack though?? Lifetime sailing including 1990 BOC Singlehanded Around World Race...many Antarctic sailing expeditions....lived together alone in a box in Antarctica for a year. |
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Gee Randal...you have some fun...I can just see you smiling when you are writing this...this is your adventure and you have a great attitude so I look forward to all the updates.
I forget what hight your engine out blower is sucking from...ie how far down from the top of the engine room and where is it pointed at....your temp could be because of still air at the top?? look at the air flow....our was monted 40 cm from the top...I moved it to the top? Don't trade in your anchor...keep it and just get a bigger one...we have 110lb CQR on the roller...60 delta bolted to the Bulwalk at the bow ready to set...a 75lb fisherman/admiratly under the saloon sole....an FX 37 fortress and the second biggest fortress both in the aft locker?? 1/2 chain will not fit if you want any length...we have 400ft of 3/8 High test chain every link stamped..imported from America...with certified shackles/swivels...I will not hang ICE on a $1.50 Gall shackle from?? We scrapped the split anchor locker....but unfortunately SHM poured the concrete in the bow before I could stop them so I have a shallow DROP too...so if it will not fall I will dig it out latter ( it's airated concreat so should not be too hard)...I fitted the 6inch SS inspection port beside the winch to push chain with a stick and it is now a SHM standard but they still fit the split locker and with that you can't reach the chain?? Owners of the 462 should think long and hard about NOT ordering the Flybridge?? it is the best thing on our boat!full stop! If you have ever sat for long in a helm seat at sea you will get a GOOD HELP SEAT for sure...nothing drives me crazy like a wobbly squeeky non-secure helm seat and the 462 is a five star boat ....you can sit on any seat but if you are going to sea you need a "HELM SEAT!" if you can afford it get a Stidd...you will never regret it ...but you must then fit a watch alarm...to stop you nodding off! As for the Fish there is one design that will fly...and work well...all the Nordhavns use it ...it is described in detail in cruising underpower...as is the whole flopper rig....if your fish has no rudder it will not track...you need the center of ballance then lift from slightly forward of that...hole no three of the standard 6 hole design is the start position....steel is the best material to build fish....if you try to lift them yourself you will damage the side of your boat not to mention your back...you have to set up a system that removes the skipper from the equation...Nordhavn do it very succesfully...without touching the side of the boat...or lifting anything manually...we will use our Targa and use the sheet winches to recover the permanent retrevial line and lift the fish clear of the back of the boat and stow them on the aft marina deck. I will also carry a spare fish. A barding light for the marina deck is a great idea...stern nav light is OK but if it is in the right position so you can actually see it legally when carrying a dingy ...it may be too high...our is way up...and a big bright light is great for fishing etc? Your 140 amp altinater will be just fine- the 70 amp was crazy...My engine came with the same but I took it off knowing 20% of battery capacity is an average minimum and ours are 600amp DIN or 740amp in laymans terms...get the matching Balmar reg and temp sensors...our batteries are rated at 3500 X 50% cycles over 15/20 years (upgraded 2v cells from standard) so you will be set but you should make sure they build a mechanicle tensioning device for the belts as you will pull heaps of HP. I carry a complete spare 140 amp alt and regulator ready to fit. I have a dedicated temp guage from Cruise Pro with three sensors with high / low settable alarms...I have one on the 140 amp Balmar...one on the std engine alt. and one on the engine room deckhead...I can always monitor all three and alarms will tell me if anything is getting too hot and I get an actual temp reading at the helm station so I can log it at engine logging intervals to monitor unusual changes. For other forum members...think 24v watermakers...then you will not have to run the gen to make water...I was the survivor/Katydan agent in Australia for 15 years...they are great...we have the 160....spectra are good now too....if you need more water than that??? We have one saltwater manual toilet and one electric Fresh water toilet, but if I am making water I will NOT be flushing it down the DUNNY! and if we are short on power I will not be flushing the power down the dunny...so we have a foot pump also for the fresh water and Salt water at the sink....then I can turn the pressure pump off to save water ...or at least get it out of the tank if we have no power. The fun part about boats is that we all have different ideas...and we all have fun...just spent 6 weeks at SHM finishing off ICE which is looking real flash....motoring trials in the river were great...our aft head is very "cool" with "chinese" penguins painted on the glass doors....have to go south for summer in a few days but will return in Feb to fit our masts...them sail out in late March to Hong Kong...promise to put heaps of pics up then with lots of reports...hopefully as much fun as Randals....sorry about the spelling... Margie and I are both very happy...ICE is looking great! Lifetime sailing including 1990 BOC Singlehanded Around World Race...many Antarctic sailing expeditions....lived together alone in a box in Antarctica for a year. |
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Good point about the cable size and this needs to be reviewed with Randal's alternator upgrade. I have specified 4/0 cable in my system
My house bank also has a temperature sensor connected to the Balmer regulator I am not quite brave enough to pound the AGM's at 100% and in any case can deliver 270A best case, into a 600A @ 24V bank. Granted this is still a substantial number, and is designed to get max charge rate with min genset running time while doing other voltage intensive chores. |
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Robert,
You are correct, I was quoting lead acid ratings. If my memory serves me Calder reccomends that AGMs can take up to 40% of the 20 hour rating, some places state 75% at peak, others lower. It also depends on the individual AGM battery from what I have been told. Concord says you can use an unlimited rate of recharge, greater than 4x for bulk (though people that I know that cruise with them would strongly debate that), and most other manufacturers don't make that type of claim. Undersizing an alternator that is not temperature controlled can cause it to overheat. The temperature sensor that you suggested is a good idea, especially with AGM batteries. What size cable is going from the alternator to the battery? I attached a link on calculating voltage drop. I would choose adverse conditions due to the higher temperatures. Select different wire gauge size to see what percentage drop there is. It should be less than 5% for the charging system. I would overestimate the length of wire requred by a couple feet at least. With 100amp spec it is reccomending 6gauge wire, 8 is nominal. This could be part of the problem on Randal's boat as well. Too small a wire will reduce the amperage to the batteries and maintain a high alternator output voltage. It is worth checking into, especially if the alternator size is being increased. Voltage Drop Calculator Hugh
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It is my understanding that AGM batteries will accept an incredible 100% charging rate, hence my 2 x 140A alternators and 270A of Victron inverter/charger + charger capacity.
25% is for wet lead acid batteries. |
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Hi Randal,
Not sure...but think John and I met you at the Solomon's Trawlerfest. Are you in Seattle? I think John was sitting next to you at the final dinner...at the Seahorse Marine table with Jimmy Cornell. If so, we'd love to talk with you. (We lost your contact info.) Please e-mail me...PauletteCLee@verizon.net! |
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Randal,
Have you confirmed the RPM that the alternator is running at when you took your amperage readings? It is possible that the pulley ratios are not correct and so you are running the alternator too slowly for your standard cruise rpm on the deere. Overheating will reduce the efficiency but at start-up you should still see higher amperage. AGM battery banks will only take 25% charge rate of total capacity for a very short period of time and they will need to be 50% discharged, or more, to do so. If you are 60% or higher the bank just won't take that high of a charge rate. The battery banks life also will be a lot shorter if it sits above ambient. The rule of thumb is that for every 15 degrees above 77f battery life cuts in 1/2. As the batteries age the available capacity drops and the alternator charging rate (amps) will also drop. I wouldn't think your battery bank will have aged this quickly but you never know. One thing to do is when the bank is drawn down to 50% and the engine room is cool start the engine and test the amperage with the regulator set to maximum (and reading that it is at the bulk charge rate). Make sure you know the rpm ratio to engine rpm and compare to Balmars chart. You may benefit from a larger alternator, as it will run cooler, but it sounds like something else may be going on as well. When you set the anchor do you back down in reverse under full throttle and put your foot on the chain or watch it to detect any vibration that would indicate dragging? If there is vibration at all you need to reset. If it holds rock steady under full reverse load you really shouldn't drag using the CQR that you have, without a change in wind direction (though CQRs do handle wind direction change well). Please forget I mentioned this if it is obvious or you have done it for years. I figure better to mention it than to assume it is your practice! Hugh |
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Can't wait for the head report
Smelly heads and electrical issues have been the bane of my other boats and I was hoping that the fresh water toilets would have solved this problem. With the bigger alternator, you may wish to consider running the watermaker off the inverter when the Deere is operating. Given a single (and hot) inverter you will need to do some load management but gets by the problem of only making water when runing the genset. I have 2 inverters so not a big deal, but all the same it draws 8A @ 220V or 1760W and will tax your inverter if hot or running other loads. Make sure you order an alternator temp sensor for the Balmer so that the regulator can control alternator temp. Do you have a single 140A alternator? If so then the J-180 mount will fit the Deere bracket I have on my main. This is a Deere part number and my engine was ordered specially with it, along with the Leece Neville alternator. I do not see how to attach the drawing here so send my your email and I will fwd the Deere drawings |
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Hugh
The freezer lid has one gas shock which is adequate until the lid gets nearly shut and then it's heavy. Usually one good shutting on the fingers prevents any future problems or better yet, warn your guest, especially short ones. The other option would be to have SHM install a lighter material on the lid. To date they have corian but famica might be a better solution. I listed most of the issues above but I am getting ready to address my thoughts on head odors in another post. John I had wooden flopper stopper fish and asked Bill for steel ones but the yard was out of steel ones so I asked him to replace the wood with steel. This apparently changed the dynamics greatly. Bill has suggested I try another hole for the chain hookup but I realize now that the added weight of the steel over wood probably doomed their proformance. Robert I'm so inspired by # 6 and your boat # 7 that I'm actually jealous. I just ordered a 97 series Balmar that doubles the amps of the one I have now to 140 amps at 24 volt. I also ordered a rebuild kit for it too. I will have to have my custom bracket redesigned here but fortunately there is an excellent machine shop nearby. Hiring Arild to help with your electrical layout was a very good thing to do. You can try the non-devided locker but it seems the problem of the chain jamming comes from the lack of depth rather than footprint. This will be exagerated with a 1/2" chain. It simply piles straight up like a Christmas tree and when it reaches the top there is no more chain weight pulling the chain down and it jams up at the gypsy. Aggrevating when you consider all the things that have to be delt with during anchor retrival. Add some wind and surrounding boats to that and you're really got a problem. I'm working on a throughhull right above the chain chute that will allow me to physically knock the pile down with a SS rod. The SS guy is supposed to be by here today. Many things we see in design are just individual comforts. That's the reason we are all not driving Chevys. What might be a big issue to you or me might not bother someone else at all. This DD is a great platform to explore those ideas and I don't mind sharing what I've learned and what I've done that works for me and what doesn't. I hope the rest of you will do the same. Randal |
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Randal - thanks for taking the time to give us this feedback. I have been thinking of these problems as well and my thoughts are as follows:
Given that you have an E-series you can run Raymarine PC software, install a wireless network, and place your laptop (or Ruth's nice wide screen one!) next to your bed. It then can display split screen mode, wind and radar. A side benefit is that the PC can run in parallel with the E Series so for example at the helm, you can have chart on one, and radar on the other. This is my intended mode, and the aft cabin idea is a bonous. I plan to carry a small pressure washer for anchor chain washdown and general cleanup duty. ER vent remains a concern, and I have located the 2 x 3 Kw inverters and 100A charger outside the ER. I still would like to see a better input fan arrangement and will discuss once again when at the yard. Did you see my alternator set up? There are 2 large frame 140A Leece Neville alternators which allows derating for high temp operation. Use a large frame alternator, and if you have to go with a single alternator, take a look at the big red Electrodyne units. I am also thinking of rigging a blower fan in front of the Deere for alternator cooling I have specified a 50 Kg main anchor and 1/2 chain. Given your comments on the chain locker, I am now thinking of going with a single non-divided locker and rigging the secondary anchor rode as needed. Freezer lid and swiveling helm chair are great comments and will need addressed next yard visit. Robert |
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Randal,
You should be ashamed, posting of your fun in the Philliphines when I'm still working! Seriously, congratulations on the clean break, we're following, just taking longer to get there. What inspired your fish design? Was the SHM product not to your liking? Let us know how things go! Fair winds & following seas, John |
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Randal,
Sounds like you are jumping in with both feet! I do remember the freezer lid being rather heavy. Do you have gas shocks on it? If they aren't strong enough it is pretty easy to upgrade them to a higher boost level. What are the major changes you see doing? It is helpful to all of us following the boards to know what issues people face and how they are dealing with them so the more detail the better! Thanks and keep enjoying. Hugh |
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