I did not look how to change the oil in both the Deere main and genset.

Can this be done using a catch pan without creating a big mess, or is there some sort of sump pump provided?

Look in photos for a schematic for the system, something I drew up for my on use. The hoses going to the center of the GCF are the pressure lines coming from the respective engine oil pressure sending unit locations. I used high pressure hydraulic hoses in locations where a failure could dump the crankcase oil. Hoses that were isolated by valves were 350 PSI fuel line hoses.
The components are the Reverso pump, stainless steel new oil reservoir, two GCF O-1 bypass filters, valves, hoses and fittings. It took time to build but I enjoy that sort of thing so I didn't mind.
I would say I have about $1200 in the system. The tank was $500, two GCF new from ebay $346, the pump I forgot but I think around $160, the rest was valves, fittings, and hoses.
It seems to work fine, the GCF heats quickly after the engine is started so I guess they're getting plenty of circulation though the orifice inside the filter coming from the engine oil pressure is about 1/64" in diameter. I estimate that my engine oil pressure dropped 5 to 7 pounds.

Randal

[IMG]C:\Users\OMX\Pictures\2007-09-24 oil change polishing system\oil change polishing system 003.JPG[/IMG]

Randal
Would you be willing to post a schematic and parts list for your system?

The $20 or so that an oil test costs will be the best money spent on a new engine. You are fortunate starting with a new engine: you will establish baseline data for your engine, and you will have early warning of problems coming up. Having oil test data available has enabled me to have an engine rebuilt, before failure and under warranty!
Same goes for hydraulics, transmission, etc. Best money you can spend!

Just my .02 .
John

The Iveco rep encouraged testing so that "if" there were an engine problem the owner could prove there was no degradation in the additives package or above average particles in the oil. This would prevent any denial of warranty claim based on the non-standard filtration system using an oil change interval and set-up that has not been approved by the manufacturer.

Even forgetting this, and the hype aside, it is better to know how the filtration system is working than to assume how it is working.

Hugh

I've installed GCF oil polishers on my John Deere engine and my gen-set. See Photos 9/14/07. On the trawlerworld list there was mention of a web site for a company that sells a at home oil test kit. http://www.enginecheckup.com/index.html
I may order it and see if it works. I intend to change the GCF and the six quarts of oil they contain and that's it, depending on the oil analysis.

Randal

The yard just told me that putting a Gulf Coast filter on the Iveco engine will void the warranty. Any more info on this?

(I spoke with Iveco). They stressed a couple things. 1) The filter shouldn't bypass the main filter, it should filter the oil before or after the Iveco filter. 2)It shoudl cause no discernable pressure drop in oil supply in the engine. 3) If these two conditions are met and the customer has taken regular test samples to show the filter is not degrading the additives package (through lack of new oil or running longer intervals) than the warranty should remain intact. Basiscally it is up to the owner to prove this modification did not degraded the quality of oil over what it would normally be. The tech rep that I spoke to personnly does not like gulf coast filters to be used on the oil side only fuel. He recommends an external system that uses a similar grade cartridge filter.

250 hours between oil changes or twice a year at a minimum for the NEF150.

We need to check the duty cycle and flow rate on the Reverso/Jabsco pump, so that we do not overstress the motor or overwhelm the GC filter. I imagine that duty cycle is not the issue as 2X through the GC should suffice.

I do not see any disadvantages alluded to by GC. Assuming that the flow rate is acceptable, I do not see why lube oil polishing is not a good idea - if it is worth doing, it is worth overdoing. At the cost of a valve it is not a big deal.
As Don indicates it would be best to polish lube oil when hot.

I raised the question of flow rate and duty cycle on the supplied fuel polishing pump, and am also of the opinion that this is a bit too small to act as anything other than a pre-filter into the operating tank. IMHO the 40gal/min Walbro specified by Cptn. Will and others is too low to stir up and crud in the bottom of the tank.

OTOH, if one polished and returned to the same tank while rolling about it may pick up a bit of the crud, but this is a case where overdoing the flow rate can be justified.

Hummnn?? now you have me thinking?....I have never used the GC oil polishing system but I am just installing/will be using it as per the instructions.....it only does a little oil flow, but as the engine is running, it eventually continuously filters all the oil.....and I would assume?? you need the heat to keep everything in suspension for filtering, so not sure of the issues of filtering cold oil with the engine not running?

It has been interesting reading the Fuel polishing arguments in Passage Maker...I tend now think a true fuel polishing system needs a really BIG high capacity pump to create currents in your tank, stir up all the "nasties" in tanks to be worthwhile when polishing random tanks alongside....I think of our GC fuel polishing system on the SHM 462 as more of an "ultimate" filter to get the "nasties" out of the fuel before it goes into the working tank and then on to the engine.

I have a 12 hour timer on my fuel polisher and Randal got me a neat flow meter so I can count the litres going into the working tank.

This should probably be on a seperate post//....but///....I see on the latest SHM fuel schematic for new boats, there are two fuel pumps in the system....to give redundancy...this is a great idea...they are always improving their boats....I only have one, but will carry a spare pump and hope if I ever have to replace it will not be 2am, force 9 , 7 mtr seas!...touch wood.

Robert

That was my idea, to have a full flow filter that I could plumb into the oil change system using the reverso pump as a polishing pump. I could polish the oil underway or at the dock. I called GCF and pitched my idea and they advised against it. He went on to say that they had no experience with doing it that way and the disadvantages outweighed the advantages.
I didn't persue him on it but he said just hook it up the way it was designed to be hooked up and I would be fine. I have read there web site several times and they do have a great deal of data on there from their experience with oil rig generators.
If you do it that way, let me know how it works out. I have a 6 hour timer switch I'm putting on my fuel polishing system, I forget things.

Randal Johnson

Don and Randal

Can you plumb it so that the Gulf Coast oil filter will run full flow in addition to normal by-passs mode?
If so then you can circulate the engine oil through the GC filter X times before changing the GC element.
This is what I was getting at with running the GC oil filter in the fuel polishing paradigm.

By-pass filtration works well but only filters a small amount of the oil when the engine is running. Over time this equates to full filtration. In engine off, full flow mode, the GC would be filtering 100% of the sump oil.

At the cost of a paper towel, I could see my way to installing a new GC filter, polishing the oil, and dumping into the fuel. This would make me happier about dumping waste oil into my fuel system.

In my application I will tend to change the GC element more often than the sump oil and Deere filter.

I was drawing the schematics for my oil changing/polishing system this morning when it occurred to me how at least one step of oil changing could be simplified. I know there are some who would never dream of putting used motor oil in their fuel but I don’t have a problem with it. With the versatile fuel polishing systems on these boats the oil could be diluted indefinitely.
I’m running an oil line from my pump to a fuel manifold in order to pump the used oil into a fuel tank but you could use the fuel polishing pump to suck the oil out of both the engine and the gen-set, eliminating the dirtiest part of an oil change, draining the old oil.
With the addition of another valve in the fuel polishing system you could actually pump the used oil into a waste container if you wished.
Does the list have any thoughts on this?

Randal Johnson

Cap'n Mark:
I agree wholeheartedly with your analysis of the lube oil problem. I cannot imagine not thinking of and treating my boat as a ship!

Randal:
Sounds like you have an excellent set-up! Congrats!

When one considers the number of B.U.'s that are associated with cruising, it just doesn't make sense to not do all one can to leave a "clean wake", if for no other reason.

Just my .02 .
John

The stainless steel guy just left the boat with our plans for the new oil container. It will be 24" deep, 20" wide, 14" high, and have a capacity of 26 gallons with one corner cut away to accomodate the Reverso Pump and the valve manifold. There will be a filler neck, a vent tube nipple to attach a hose to that will go up the wall, a 3/8" female fitting for attachment of the pump connection, and a dip stick.
It fits down low between the gen-set and refrigerator. The only problem with this location is it reduces accessability to the prop shaft seal. It would be some work but it could be removed if need be.
I have five valves on my valve body and one will run to a tee and from the tee to the bottoms of both GCF oil filters. This way I can suck the oil out of the filter, replace the element, and pump new oil back in again.
As long as I keep the levers and switch button clean I should be able to change oil in my Sunday suit, I may have to buy a suit just for that occasion.

Randal

What is a paradigm?...is that what us aussies call a thingamegig?...

You cannot run oil through the GC Fuel polishing system?....you know beer is bad for you and your engine....when you save all that money not fitting an oil change system....you will spill the oil changing it for sure!, as you will have drunk too much beer, so spend the money, drink less beer and keep the engine room clean???......yes ..Margie and I do not drink!! we are crazy enough without it?

OK, maybe I am being a bit stingy as 400 does not impact the big picture a great deal and does not buy a lot of beer after all. I admit it would be a handy system to have, but doing it manually is not such a big deal either.

So your GF is a by-pass filter - I am doing the same on both main and gennie.
Given the Jabsco pump, could you plumb it so that you could polish lube oil per the fuel polishing paradigm? Not sure if this is a big advantage over the little bit at a time, by-pass method but it would be nice to fllter the oil really well before changing the GC filter.

The combination of the GC oil by-pass filter(s), a good synthetic like Mobil 1 Delvac, and a regular oil analysis will make this chore occur a bit less often.

The great part about being the Captain of our own boats, is that we can all have the systems we want.I,ve got a RED Boat!

My Jabsco oil change unit has three hoses on the manifold so you could do twin engines and the generator.... or engine , gearbox, generator ... The pump is reversable of course so I can empty and fill .Cost from most outlets is around US$399...then you have the hoses to the engine$? 200hrs is only 8 days steaming or generator time...and for me that is nothing. For another captain that may be two months on their boat.?? Go the drill pump!

I will be using 20ltr plastic jerry cans, approved containers, to handle good and bad oil and will decant/fill these from the steel bulk containers I buy the oil in.They are easier to store and secure.

My OIL POLISHING system is a Gulf Coast unit that has no pump at all...it is in the lube loop of the engine and oil comes through a small restrictor hole, so is simply like a giant oil filter that continuously filters the oil so you then change the filter every 200hours -not the oil- and on occasions you have your oil sample analyzed and put some additives in. Long-Haul trucks can go 150,000 miles between oil changes with these systems. Thats nearly 3000hrs on a boat!

I like the idea of an oil change and oil polish system as it gives me great flexibility.They both fit with heaps of room to spare between the generator and fridge recess...SHM have done a very tidy instalation.

I would also NEVER sail with out a manual Vacum Pump Oil Extractor...not for oil changes , but for pumping the bilge mess in the engine room....any big water you can use the bilge pump as the oil will be on the surface but it is always the little bits of oily water in the out of the way places that are a hassel...the units (65cm high x 6.5 litres capacity)let you pump up a vacum in the container, then you go round with the magic wand, dip it in the oily muck, pull the trigger and suck up the muck into the container...no mess...they are brilliant as you contain all the bad stuff till you can get rid of it and they suck up the last little drops so your bilges are dry.If you have never tried one you are missing out big time! Get one!

While on the subject of oil...I thought I new a bit about it, but Roberts August 6th link below to the CALSCI site about Motorcycle oil is VERY GOOD reading...I learnt a bit more!

Once again, this is not a ship, and it is highly unlikely that the Coasties in any country will be examining how much oil I buy

With all due respect, KISS
Step 1 - drain the old oil into an oil pail using the installed sump drain hose and a drill pump. Use a absorbent pad if you are clumsy. You may prudently decide not to do this when rolling about.
Step 2 - Pour the new oil in the top, keeping the clumsy pad close at hand.
Step 3 - Spend the money you saved on a dedicated pumping system on beer

If that is too difficult, buy all means spend your excess money on a bulkhead mounted pump to do it for you.
You will still need to fill up that shiny oil storage tank with oil, and drain the shiny waste tank. This tank filling and draining raises the same spillage issues and running the risk of annoying the Greenies.

One could make an arguement for using a dedicated pumping system to polish oil like Don is doing, and I think this is a good idea. IMHO, I am not keen on running used engine oil through precision injectors and pump, no matter how well filtered, YMMV

I intend to spend my money on beer and boating rather than a pump. OTOH, if funds were unlimited I would install a pump for the polishing function, and naturally use it to change the oil.

What does this Jabsco pump system cost? Additional cost for the 2 tanks?

Robert.

Complicated? How can an oil change system be complicated? Keeping the oil changed, and isolating it from the bilges is paramount to maintaining a clean ship. Once the bilges are contaminated with oil, you almost never get rid of it, trust me on this. The smallest presence of oil in the bilge pump will create a sheen in the marina. With today’s water pollution laws, an oil change system avoids costly liability and definite piece of mind, not to mention easy oil changes that you will likely do more often by reducing the amount of labor involved. I have dumped oil in through the top using the spout can method; there is almost always some oil that will spill down the side of the motor and into tiny spaces where clean-up is nearly impossible. Changing fuel filters creates enough exposure to bilge contamination, adding small amounts of waste oil to the equation just adds to future headaches and more needless bilge maintenance. Oil tends to clog bilge pumps as well. This is why the Coast Guard examines oil consumption logs, the amount of Clean Oil that is loaded onto a ship needs to equal the amount of waste oil that comes off a ship, with a small margin allowed for oil that is burned in the engine, any discrepancy beyond that, it is assumed that the oil made it overboard via the bilge pump. An Oil Change system is the only way to go.

Randal, That is an impressive system. I'm sure everybody is looking forward to seeing it when you are done. I'm sure Passage Maker may want to include it at some point.

I will be having the GC system on the main and nothing on generator. Oil usage with this type of set-up is minimal and changing doesn't require a pump so on the whole I'm pretty happy.

GC does not reccomend the use of synthetic from my understanding, not because of any negatives, but because it is not needed. I can't imagine that it doesn't help a little though.

Hugh

You're right, the whole darn boat is getting too compilcated, but I go forward just the same. I owned two auto collision repair shops and worked on cars all my life and the last time I changed oil in one was 1984.
Of course the mindset of a collision tech is different from a mechanic, we were ar-tist and that doesn't fair well with grease and oil.
I have an oil change pump and valve block to handle oil changes. I have GCF O-1 for the engine and one for the gen-set. When I do change oil I will pump the used oil into a fuel manifold and direct it to the tank of my choice, mixing it with hundreds of gallons of fuel before it is filtered through the GCF F-1 and into the cruising tank.
I'm negociating with the stainless steel fabricator on building a SS holding tank for the new oil. I would like to keep plenty of oil on board and in one of five gallon containers it takes up space and moves around.
As soon as I get all this mounted I will post pictures. I haven't figured out where to mount the oil change pump/manifold yet but I will.

Randal

This is getting far too complicated. Waste oil tanks, fresh oil tanks, dedicated pumps for in and out, et al is just adding complications to a simple operation. This not a big ship, nor are we dealing with large volumes or high consumption rates.

Fido advises that there is a tube leading from the sump(s) for draining. Use a simple drill pump and discharge into a 20 liter pail for disposal. Commercial docks often are able of vacuum out the sump. Dump the new oil in the top of the engine and you are done. Throw some disposable diapers under there while doing all this if it makes you feel better.

Stash a case of your favourite oil on board in case it is difficult to find. Mobil 1 Devac will be. Bounty Mega paper towels are unavailable here in Asia and I am shipping over 2 Costco sized cases. Note the old Bounty is now called the Mega size. 6" OD and one could wrap ones own in a pinch.

I am installing a Gulf Coast oil-by-pass filter system on both engines, and intend to use Mobil 1 Devac. Expensive stuff, but my research shows it is the best. In fact I run it in everything I own, right down to the maids scooter.

Oil change intervals can be safely lengthened if very well filtered as oil does not really "wear out" and fresh additives are installed when the GF filter is changed. Bounty towels are cheap and so is the top up oil so change it often. Regular oil analysis to establish a baseline should be part of any filter/oil change program.

Sounds like Don has his rigged by-pass filter to polish the oil as well as act as a by-pass filter. I could justify this application for a oil sump pump system but not for a simple task like changing the oil every now and again. Full flow polishing would turn the oil over more than the slow by-pass filter rate, and is a good idea.

For those interested in oil topics, take a look at this link and make up your own mind.
http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Oils1.html

http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/API.html

Robert

A waste-oil tank (or semi-permanent container that can be secured) is a must have item! Also, bulk storage for new oil is a good idea if you have the room (oil is cheaper, oil changes are painless and clean). A good pumping system can be used to pump out used oil and then pump in new oil.
Just my .02.

I believe that the bulkhead mounted oil change system is a must, oil in the bilge is the most time consuming maintenance in an engine room an with the water pollution fines today, it is a no-brainer option. Bilge Boy oil separating bilge pump is another good idea. Believe me, I know, I was an engineer on a 280ft cruise ship, with 2 mains and 5 generators. Any thoughts on a built-in waste oil tank?