I have been reading everything I can about rig types on a Duck and the good discussion 5 years ago here:

http://ducktalk.net/eve/forums...1026341?r=3751030641

Now five years later, with more of you experienced using the different rig types, I have a few questions:

Any experience of the pros and cons of the balanced rig or motor sailing rig?

What are the effective points of sail for each rig?

Do the flopper stoppers limit the rig type on a 382 and the 462?

Same question for the flybridge, does the flybridge limit the rig type for the 382 and the 462?


Redundancy and getting home to a particular continent being the given, what rig type do you prefer for the 382 and 462 and why?

Thanks for your thoughts,

Well, John, nobody has ventured forth with an answer. So I'll put in my 2 cents. Some Duckers (DuckHeads?) have their own views, so we may get some action here.

George's original Diesel Duck rig was basically modeled from fishing boats, an aft mast with boom primarily used for lifting things aboard. Lots of fishing boats add a steadying sail to this rig for stabilization and to help prevent sailing at anchor. George added a jib hanked on the forestay used to support this mast. Even better for stabilization and offered reaching and aft wind sailing ability in case of serious fuel or mechanical problems. "Continental Sailing" - you will hit a continent someday.

We built several of these, the latest (with furling mains, not sail covers on booms) are DD-4629 robertnmargaret@hotmail.com and 46210 johnhesser@mac.com. Feel free to ask them for their comments. Unfortunately, to get decent sail area, we have to extend the boom beyond the two backstays. This means sailing at aft reaches or down wind you have to lift the end of the boom up with the topping lift so it can get around the stay. Easy to do.

Now, if you truly want to sail, and this includes some ability to sail up wind, than you need a balance rig, mast placed FWD near the center of the boat. Defined as the Center of Effort of the sails (C.E. the place where the wind pressure on the sails exerts its total heeling effect) being placed on the boat about 10% of the waterline length ahead of the Center of Lateral Resistance (CLR., the point on the hull where you can push or pull a boat sideways without it turning).

We have made five Ducks this way. "David Ellis" DD- 4622 dnagle1949@aol (recently sailed across the Pacific). Dean Phelp's 3822 dean.a.phelps@gmail.com (with flybridge), and Bob Straghan's 462 rgstraghan@yahoo.ca (which is a ballasted full height motorsailer version) have not, at this point, made many cruises.

Brian Saunder's Custom 41,travellerbrian3@hotmail.com has been cruising with his balanced rig, picture below:



The fifth is Don McIntyre's 4626 icebound@ozemail.com.au which has an owner designed balanced ketch rig. According to all reports it sails very well. Again, feel free to ask for comments.



Interesting diversion, Brian Eiland http://www.runningtideyachts.com/sail/ has a theory that aft placed masts are fine, if the main is small enough so the C.E., mostly based on the jib, is in the correct place. Take a look. Maybe a short boom and small "blade" main would work? George might be right!

Hanked on sails? Furling around a wire stay? Harken style aluminum foil furling? Lots of room for discussion here. Keep in mind that ultimate conditions dictate a stripped boat, everything that can be removed and lashed down should be. Mike Maurice, after boat sitting in a horrendous storm, said "at 120MPH virtually all furled sails were gone"!

Note: How to determine C.E. and CLR. http://www.seawindrc.com/sail%...er%20Of%20Effort.asp.

Thanks for your reply Bill,

I have asked Dean for a ride along and we leave in a few weeks so I will have a ten days to get some real experience on his Duck while he moves it south for the winter. While using the ICW we probably won't use the sails but I am looking forward to getting a good feel of the 382. I have ordered some books about junk rigs as I am very interested in single-handed cruising and from what I have read they seem to be the best. Do you or others have any experience of junk rigs and or single-handed cruising with sails on Ducks? I have read about Seaducktress but any other references would be helpful.

All of this a great help to someone who is learning about sailing though research only at this time. But a few Duck owners have been kind enough to offer me a ride along on their various travels and I am looking forward to it all.

I have spent about two years researching passagemakers and so far Diesel Ducks appear to be the best at making the necessary compromises while keeping seaworthy.

Thanks again,

John D

Hi..hey good luck with deciding on rigs...the fun part of owning a boat is making the final decision....!!

Well I own ICE..and rather embarresingly she has ben Docside for some time while I have been up to other little adventures as plans change...anyway ICE is coming back into my life and even though I promised it over a year ago the ICE web site will be up withing "Days" now rather than months so will have lots of pic's and details soon!!

I am a sailor and would suggest NOT to reinvent the wheel and build a Junk Rig??..unless you are really short of money??..you will find it very hard to sell your boat one day as most people do not want a Junk rig..that point alone is the biggest reason not to do it..I have owned one Junk rig boat..and original Angus Primrose/ Blondie Hasler design...so learnt all about Junks and they really are great BUT??..just stay conventional!..with a real headsail furling gear you can go anywhere...I would just go with the standard mast from Seahorse if you are not a sailor but put it ontop of the pilot house right forward...it looks right there as it is much beter balanced and gives you more options for trying to sail "get home"..etc...all the rest of my previous comments here about rigs stand!!...

Bill builds a VERY GOOD mast now with there own rigging shop, extrusions etc...and every boat just gets better!! BUT..OK..just my opinion!!..I do not like a boom that cannot be sheeted right out so do not like the twin backstays that hit the boom??..keep the mast forward and you have room for the single backstay with a traditional boom??..do the furling right there too with a correct size system for heavy winds( which is when you will use it) and you have a very easy rig to manage...

If you are a sailor and really want to sail...go for the big rig!!

All the best...And if all goes well..fingers crossed..ICE may hit the road next year!!

Don

OPPS!!..sorry about the BAAAD! spelling that follows..been on a plane for 48hours,,time to go to bed!..Don