The anchors I have seen on DD to date seem a bit small given what I had on my old 52ft. troller. While I sometimes tend to over design things, the anchor is somewhere where bigger is usually better. Like Steve Dashew says, get an anchor so big your neighbours will laugh at you.

Looking at Practical Sailor and Powerboat recent anchor tests the overall winners in order are Spade, Bullweggga, and CQR. For a DD 462 and going up one size, the manufacturers size charts suggest a 55kg steel Spade, 30 kg Bull, and CQR 60.

1. Will the bow anchor roller handle 85 kg of dead load?

2. Will 85 kg of anchors have a detrimental effect on handling?

3. What is the working load and stall load of the windlass?

4. Comments about anchor sizing?

5. Standard size chain supplied?

6. Recommended snubber diameter?


Robert

I had a Rocna built here in Subic Bay by a welding shop duplicating the one David had on 462-4. The shop has completed welding it together and I have to take it to Manila to have it galvanized. The cost of the steel and fabrication was 15,000 Pesos or $361.09 USD. The cost of galvanizing is 30 P per kilo and I'm asking for double treatment. The weight is 44 kilo so the cost should be $63.55. or $424.64. Pretty cheap considering a genuine Rocna would be twice as much plus shipping. I'll post a photograph.

I have decided on a 55 kg Rcona on 400' x 3/8 Acco grade 43 chain. Chain locker is undivided and will carry the chain only. Rode chute will be used as a chain locker access point to topple over the pile of chain using a boat hook.

A snubber will be attached to the bow eye, with a devils claw to the chain. CM 7/16 high tensile shackels all round

Muir 500C chain counter keeps track of chain and allows remote control from the PH. Now just to figure out how to rig a pressure washer?

The Chinese Danforth will be carried on the secondary bow roller, and lashed in place. The 300' of rode will be carried in the locker in front of the PH.

The Chinese spade is a spare and will be bolted to the deck per Don's idea. Either Chinese anchor c/w rode can do duty as a stern anchor if required.

I try to avoid writing many comments here because a lot of these boats have systems etc. that frankly I don't understand. However, this and a few other anchor comments have been bothering me for several months hence this reply.
Kolstrand Manufactoring, in Seattle, makes a hydraulic self storing winch. One large enough for the 462 has a 16" long drum 14" wide. It will hold 570 feet of 7/16" gal. wire rope which has an 8 ton plus breaking point, along with 60' of 7/16" chain. It costs $3,588 not 15 thousand. It has a hydraulic motor which is the simplest and most reliable system to use. The smallest one they make has a 12" wide drum, 12" wide. It will hold 350' of 3/8"

quote:

wire rope and 40' of 3/8" chain. It costs $2600 There is a mid sized one and of course bigger ones but these two would handle anything you folks are likely to own.
Hope this helps the anchor discussion.....

George

quote:

Originally posted by Ric:
I certainly agree with George that a drum/wire arrangement is a good idea. My brief investigation of the market (corresponding with manufacturers) indicated that they're not set up to build a yacht-sized system. They could make one, but it'd cost around $15,000 (only one mfr gave me an actual number, however) and it does tie up more deck real estate than a traditional windlass. So for our DD44 we're going with a Lofrans Falkon with 7/16" HT chain and a 93# Fjortford anchor [the anchor pulls into the bow, and there's no chute/roller assembly]. For a boat of similar weight, I was happy cruising for years with a 50kg Bruce, but that won't work on this boat unless I reconfigure the bow. Too much else to do right now......

I certainly agree with George that a drum/wire arrangement is a good idea. My brief investigation of the market (corresponding with manufacturers) indicated that they're not set up to build a yacht-sized system. They could make one, but it'd cost around $15,000 (only one mfr gave me an actual number, however) and it does tie up more deck real estate than a traditional windlass. So for our DD44 we're going with a Lofrans Falkon with 7/16" HT chain and a 93# Fjortford anchor [the anchor pulls into the bow, and there's no chute/roller assembly]. For a boat of similar weight, I was happy cruising for years with a 50kg Bruce, but that won't work on this boat unless I reconfigure the bow. Too much else to do right now......

While not yachting looking and will get arguments from Bill, look at a self storing cable winch. There's a reason all commercial boats go that way. Several hundred yards of 3/8" wire rope and 20' of 3/4" chain should hold most, and weigh much less than all chain. Less expensive too.
Anchor size and design are personal choices. I personally always remember what Herreshoff wrote about the Plough. He said humans spent eons figuring out the best shape to plough the earth and what happens? Some con man comes along and sells it as an anchor....

quote:

Originally posted by Robert Straghan:
The anchors I have seen on DD to date seem a bit small given what I had on my old 52ft. troller. While I sometimes tend to over design things, the anchor is somewhere where bigger is usually better. Like Steve Dashew says, get an anchor so big your neighbours will laugh at you.

Looking at Practical Sailor and Powerboat recent anchor tests the overall winners in order are Spade, Bullweggga, and CQR. For a DD 462 and going up one size, the manufacturers size charts suggest a 55kg steel Spade, 30 kg Bull, and CQR 60.

1. Will the bow anchor roller handle 85 kg of dead load?

2. Will 85 kg of anchors have a detrimental effect on handling?

3. What is the working load and stall load of the windlass?

4. Comments about anchor sizing?

5. Standard size chain supplied?

6. Recommended snubber diameter?


Robert

quote:

Posted 27 November 2006 03:08 AM Hide Post
This is a tricky subject as anchoring at the best of times is a personal thing...which one is really the best??...but for all the blokes out there SIZE does matter in my opinion...for a main anchor 60lb is far too light....we have a 110lb plow on high strength 3/8th chain...I would like to go 1/2 inch but need 400ft and that would be too heavy so have shipped the good stuff in from USA,,

I carry the second biggest Fortress ...stows flat, a 70lb admiralty/fisherman...you know the popeye one...which also stows flat in three pieces...and I have to decide on one more which may be a 60lb Bruce...but I have to work out where to stow it.

The 110lb will live on the bow ready to go...the Fortress is for emergencies...the Fishermans will be set as a weedy rock bottom extra if and when needed...also good to dig into ice....the Bruce will be my usual 2nd anchor if I need it....still have not worked out where to put it...pain in the butt!..we have scrapped the SS basket Standard in the 462

Hello McIntyres...have been reading all your postings. Would like to e-mail you if possible. We're looking at the DD462-Sedan. Would appreciate hearing from you! PauletteCLee@verizon.net Thanks!!! Paulette & John

This is a tricky subject as anchoring at the best of times is a personal thing...which one is really the best??...but for all the blokes out there SIZE does matter in my opinion...for a main anchor 60lb is far too light....we have a 110lb plow on high strength 3/8th chain...I would like to go 1/2 inch but need 400ft and that would be too heavy so have shipped the good stuff in from USA,,

I carry the second biggest Fortress ...stows flat, a 70lb admiralty/fisherman...you know the popeye one...which also stows flat in three pieces...and I have to decide on one more which may be a 60lb Bruce...but I have to work out where to stow it.

The 110lb will live on the bow ready to go...the Fortress is for emergencies...the Fishermans will be set as a weedy rock bottom extra if and when needed...also good to dig into ice....the Bruce will be my usual 2nd anchor if I need it....still have not worked out where to put it...pain in the butt!..we have scrapped the SS basket Standard in the 462 anchor loker(for rope chain warp) as I want all the room for clear running 400ft of chain...will lay rubber mat inside to look after the paint....and I felt the SS basket was challenging to use and you cannot reach the underside of the chain pipe from on deck ...very important...if it is used....so if the chain snags you would have to run below to open the water tight hatch to clear it....

As I said...Anchoring is personal and there are a 100 ways to do it but believe me the 462 is BIG,Heavy,Lots of windage...so 100lb is minimum...have a nice sleep

Heck!!!
I've got 44lb Supermax hanging off the pulpit of my 32' Bayliner! My boat only weighs about 14000lbs.
How's that for a benchmark!!
Cheers, Mark

I dashed these anchor comments off while rushing out the door to see a donor for my next street rod project and did not proof read it at all.

I cannot forsee raising all 300 ft. of chain with the windlass, therefore the load comments are a bit circumspect. Naturally none of us would think of winching in all the chain without moving the boat under power, nor using the windlass to pull the anchor free!!

In reading the new Seahorse specs just now I see that the standard chain is 3/8 and 1/2 is optional

In any case I still think bigger is better and would appreciate knowing if bigger anchors will fit, the load can be carried, and any detrimental effect on stability.

I personally do not like to take the strain of anchoring directly on the windlass, and use a nylon snubber off the bow eye to reduce any shock loading.

quote:

Going upsize with the anchor gear I discuss earlier is a problem given that 341 kg of 1/2 chain plus a 55 kg anchor is almost the working load of the windlass.

I still would like to know if the bow roller can carry 85 kg of anchors, standard chain size supplied, and other opinons on anchor sizing.

You would only be close to the working load of the windlass if you were lifting the chain and anchor from 300ft. If you were lifting from 60ft and moving the boat forward as you lifted you would have 70kg of chain and during the final 60ft 70kgs of chain plus 55kg of anchor.

The bow rollers should be able to take 85kgs in weight if they can take the stain of anchoring. You will also need to consider if a larger anchor will physically fit on existing bow roller arrangement, for example the longer flukes of a larger danforth may hit against the hull when it is in the raised position.

I have a couple of answers to my own questions:

Specified windlass is a Muir Jaguar.
Working load is 400 kg
Max rating is 1590 kg.
Chain sizes are 5/16, 3/8, and 1/2

Specified anchors are 31 kg Plow, and 18 kg Danforth

Chain is not specified and described as 300 ft. Weights vary a bit but are approx:
5/16 at 1.06 lbs/ft = 146 kg.
3/8 at 1.55 lbs/ft = 211 kg.
1/2 at 2.5 lbs/ft = 341 kg.

Going upsize with the anchor gear I discuss earlier is a problem given that 341 kg of 1/2 chain plus a 55 kg anchor is almost the working load of the windlass. Granted there is a significant factor of safety.
Reducing chain size to 3/8 and the same 55 kg anchor is 266 kg.

Using 3/8 chain, and the 31 kg Plow anchor supplied is 242 kg.

I still would like to know if the bow roller can carry 85 kg of anchors, standard chain size supplied, and other opinons on anchor sizing.

Robert

Robert,
I completely agree with your ideas about anchor size. I have never regretted having too large an anchor, especially when its 3:00 A.M. and blowing a gale!
Good questions re: the Ducks ability to handle these kinds of loads. Maybe Bill will be able to provide some insight.

John